Pastor Troy Gramling: How To Reach Your God Potential And Purpose [Episode # 480]

Pastor Troy Gramling has led South Florida-based Potential Church for over two decades. Under his leadership, the church has experienced remarkable growth, blossoming into a vibrant congregation of over 20,000 members across the United States and Latin America. Pastor Troy is deeply committed to his vision of partnering with people to help them reach their God potential.

Before answering his pastoral calling, Pastor Troy honed his skills as a college basketball player and later as a coach. There, he sharpened values like teamwork, discipline, and dedication, which he now imparts to his congregation.

As the author of the book, Potential: The Uncontainable Power of God Within You, Pastor Troy is known for his creative, innovative, and unconventional teaching methods, which make the gospel accessible and impactful for people from all backgrounds.

In this conversation with Dr. Karen, Pastor Troy shares actionable insights for executive business leaders, including how to move past fear into creativity, lead with authenticity and vulnerability, and think at least three generations ahead to create a lasting legacy.

Reach Pastor Troy at TroyGramling.com.

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Listen to the podcast here

Pastor Troy Gramling: How To Reach Your God Potential And Purpose

Pastor Troy Gramling has led South Florida-based Potential Church for over two decades. Through his leadership the Church has experienced remarkable growth and blossomed into a vibrant congregation of over 20.

Do you ever wonder if God has prepared you for greatness? What’s the potential in you that you sometimes doubt and wonder if it’s real? How might God be equipping you for a future you haven’t yet imagined or even considered? My guest has walked the path of Potential in God and now shows others how to realize their God-given purpose, calling, and potential. Pastor Troy Gramling has led Potential Church for over two decades. Through his leadership, the church has experienced remarkable growth and has blossomed into a vibrant congregation of over 20,000 members, spanning the United States and Latin America.

Pastor Troy has an unwavering commitment to his vision, and a passion and mission to partner with people to reach their God potential. Before answering his pastoral call, Pastor Troy honed his skills as a college basketball player and later as a coach, where he sharpened the values of teamwork, discipline, and dedication that he now imparts to his congregation. He has an exceptional ability to develop and nurture leaders within the church community, ensuring that his ministry leaves a lasting legacy.

The author of the book Potential: The Uncontainable Power of God Within You, Pastor Troy is known for creative, innovative, and unconventional teaching methods that make the gospel accessible and relevant to people from all walks of life, and captivate and inspire his congregation. He and his wife, Stephanie, and their loving family are actively involved in the ministry of Potential Church in South Florida, their home. Pastor Troy continues to transform communities and to serve as a guiding light for those who seek to embrace their God-given potential and make a positive difference in the world. Welcome, Pastor Troy, to The Voice of Leadership and Dr. Karen Speaks Leadership.

It is an honor to be here. Thanks so much for the invitation, and I look forward to the conversation.

I do too. You have so many interesting aspects and facets of how you lead and what you’re doing down there in Florida. I’m looking forward to finding out all the good news that we can share with others as well.

I enjoyed that introduction.

Defining Potential: Capacity, Destiny, And Purpose

It’s all about you. First of all, since we know that potential is a big term for you, let’s start there. Pastor Troy, what is potential? How do you define it?

I think of three words. I think of capacity, destiny, and purpose. Potential is those three words wrapped together.

Say a little bit more about each of the three words.

Capacity, we’re all born with a certain sense of capacity. The great thing about capacity is as you increase your potential or your capacity, it increases as well. It’s never-ending in one sense. When you think about destiny, I believe as a Christ follower that we were knit together in our mother’s womb with a sense of destiny. Purpose is that which we feel with our gifts, our talents, and our experiences. You put those things together and discover what our purpose is and what we have passion towards.

I know that your church is also called Potential. Tell us a little bit about the backstory. How did you come up with that name for the church?

The church was about 45 years old, and I’ve only been here for 24 of those years. Originally, the church was Flamingo Road Baptist Church because it was a Baptist church and it’s on Flamingo Road. We’re located here in South Florida, and then they changed it to Flamingo Road Church. That’s what it was when I came. As we went multi-site, Flamingo is a big pink bird. We have campuses in Peru, the Bahamas, and different places, and big pink birds didn’t make a lot of sense.

We began to think about a word if we’re going to change the name. We ask the congregation to be a part of it. Potential is one of those things from the majority of my life. It’s that desire to coach and help people reach their capacity and reach their potential. It was unique. It was in 2010, and we were able to get all the handles. We felt it was a unique opportunity to be able to get the handles and embrace the name. There’s always a few jokes or memes about potentially being a church and that kind of thing, but it’s been a lot of fun.

Who would you say has potential? What if someone feels as though they don’t have potential?

That’s always the biggest challenge. It’s for us to believe that we have that. Especially if we haven’t seen a lot of success or grew up in a difficult situation, sometimes we doubt. We think you have to be a celebrity, famous, or even have a lot of money. In reality, we all have potential. We all have gifts and talents, and even experiences. Even though they might be negative, they can help us to reach our destiny. That is always one of the biggest challenges for us to grab hold of. It’s to realize and understand and then, most importantly, believe that we do have potential and that we can be more than we are.

The Role Of Faith In Reaching Your Potential

Those are great points. You started to mention that sometimes even the challenging things in life can be part of shaping that potential. Talk to us a little bit about that connection or the intersection between pain and potential. How do those two work together?

I think about success. To me, the more of our potential that we reach, the closer we are to success. To me, a definition of success is reaching our potential and becoming what we were created to be. Pain tolerance plays a big role in that. As someone who played basketball, it was my ability to deal with pain, whether it was running bleachers, lifting weights, or practicing. The more pain I could endure, the better basketball player I became, and the more of my potential as an athlete I was able to reach. Pain plays an incredible role in our ability to reach our potential. Also, pain is an incredible teacher. You have pain as part of the process of growth, but pain is also a teacher. It plays both of those roles in our lives.

When I think about exercise, in a lot of ways, we’re often breaking down something in the muscle where there’s some pain and hurt. You’re also breaking it down to build it up in a stronger way so that you ultimately can do more. If you’re growing trees, they say not to coddle the trees and overwater them. You want to give enough water so that they have to reach for it a little bit and grow some roots. I see what you’re talking about in terms of how pain has a role in our development and making us stronger in many senses.

There’s that saying, “No pain, no gain.” That’s true in all areas of life. In relationships and any type of growth, pain is an integral part of that growth.

That’s true. Even when we think about bringing children into the world, that’s usually fraught with some pain too. Yet, that’s a good experience that someone new is coming to the planet. It’s a part of our human condition, and we have to learn to leverage it and use it for our benefit. That’s one of the things I’m hearing in this conversation. You also referenced this whole notion of belief. Tell us a little bit about the role of faith in this whole notion of potential. How does that fit in?

Pain is an integral part of growth in all areas of life. Click To Tweet

The idea that you didn’t fall out of a tree and didn’t wash up on the shore. David says in Psalm that we were knit together in our mother’s womb. Jeremiah says that God put us together and that he was called before he was even born. Faith is the idea that there is a meaning to life. There is purpose to life. There is something to pursue that’s going to bring a sense of fulfillment. I do believe that is the most challenging aspect of potential. That comes across in a spiritual sense as well. Our faith in Christ, our faith in the scripture, and all of those things play a big impact in our worldview and how we pursue things.

Even someone who might not be a Christ follower but desires to reach their destiny or their potential, without faith, it’s impossible to do that because there are enough things in life that happen that would make you think you can’t succeed. If you don’t have faith, confidence, or belief that there is a purpose to your life, that there is a reason, and that there is a meaning to life, then you’re going to have a hard time going through the pain, as we were talking about earlier.

Let’s talk a little bit more personally then about these concepts. What is your potential story? How is it that God led you to where you are now as the pastor of Potential Church?

Through pain. I’m here because we were partnering with a denomination that we were a part of to start a church in Little Rock. We were going to do it maybe a little differently than they thought originally, so they decided not to pursue it. That was probably one of the most painful times in my life because I felt like a failure. Doubt is not a good feeling that we all have in our lives.

Through that pain, and the pastor that was here had invited us to come down and do a young adult service. I ultimately ended up parking cars because the young adult service was getting off the ground, and that’s how I got here. He wrote a book and went out, and I feel very blessed. He gave me an opportunity then to step into that position, but it was through the failure of Little Rock that I ended up here. I didn’t know it at the time. I didn’t know I was coming here to be lead pastor. I was coming to learn and to help them reach young adults. I was young at the time.

What were you doing in Little Rock at the time all that happened?

I had started the church in a small town and had success. Little Rock is the capital of Arkansas, and that’s where we’re from. The denominational leaders thought, “Why don’t you move here and do the same thing?” We were feeling a nudge in our heart. I wanted to be where stuff was happening, where there was traffic, even some of the bad things, but all the opportunity that comes with people and movement and excitement.

We moved down there, and I got a part-time job. The kids went to a new school, Steph went to work, and all those kinds of things in preparation to start this church. As they discovered more about our vision, they got more concerned that our approach was going to be contemporary in style, so they decided we weren’t quite ready for that. Politics.

Sometimes, differences probably shouldn’t make a difference, but often they do. People want something else, and it’s still God’s way of shaping us, moving us, and placing us where He wants us to be. I know that somewhere in your backstory and your history, you thought you might end up being a sports coach. Tell us about that story and how you ended up not going into sports coaching, and doing something else instead.

The Great Commission: Ministry In The Workplace

I had planned on being a coach. I played basketball, played in college, went overseas a little bit, and then I ended up coaching. That’s what I went to school for, that’s what I prepared for. My in-laws are superintendents, so it was all set up. My wife’s degree is in Education. We volunteered one weekend. They needed somebody in this little church we were attending to do the youth. We said, “We’ve never done it.” Steph and I were young, probably 22 at the time, something like that, 23, and we said, “We’ll do it.” As we began to do that, we felt this sense or this nudge, it’s the only way I know how to describe it, that God wanted us to go in the direction of ministry. I didn’t know exactly what that meant.

My mom had taken us to church when we were young. I had grown up in the church and all of those things, but I’d never thought about ministry as a profession or a calling until God started to sense that. We went in that direction, unknowing what it meant, or where it was going to lead, or even what it was supposed to look like. That was difficult because I had a whole plan when it came to being a coach.

This is such an interesting point because when I think about the people in the community, many of them have almost the opposite experience. There’s a part of them that feels nudged and called to minister in the workplace, to be marketplace ministry leaders, as I think about it. Yet, at the same time, sometimes they’ll feel guilty and think, “I should be doing something more in the church house. I should be in traditional ministry at church.”

Say a little bit more about how you knew that this was God’s call, even though He had equipped you. He had prepared you to be a coach. You had that background, you had that ability, and yet He was calling you to step out of the boat to walk on some water in uncharted territory for you. Say a little bit about how you knew it was God and how you might encourage those people in the workplace who are hearing God say, “I want you there in the workplace.”

For me, the clearest way I knew it was God was that it wasn’t motivated by guilt. In other words, I didn’t have that sense that I can’t be a Christ follower and be a coach. I’d already seen through playing basketball that I could have an impact as a coach or be involved in athletics. I knew that I wasn’t motivated by guilt. It was a real sense that God was doing something different.

I didn’t know exactly what it meant. We like to go from point A to point Z. One of the ways to determine whether or not God is nudging our heart towards something is to take a step in that direction. You don’t have to sell your house or quit your job. Sometimes a step of faith is teaching students or taking care of preschoolers. As you take those small steps, you get more sense of peace about what God is doing in your life.

I would encourage all of our business leaders that there’s no greater mission field than where they are. They get the great blessing of not only having a spiritual impact on the people they lead, the people they employ, and the people who employ them, but they’re also ministering through business. Business is a ministry in and of itself. It provides an opportunity for people to learn leadership. It provides an opportunity for people to learn community and how to communicate, connect, and relate. It provides a job.

It’s a ministry in and of itself. There’s the opportunity to live out your faith in that kind of context. That’s incredibly influential, especially in the world in which we live now. People sometimes are suspicious of the church. I’m a pastor. They expect me to live a certain way, to be a certain way, and to act a certain way.

If you’re a business leader, it’s an incredible opportunity to have a lasting impact on people. It’s in real life, too. People come to church expecting to hear something spiritual. When they watch a business leader deal with a difficult employee or deal with interest rates, how you deal with those things has an incredible impact on the people around you, on their mindset, and on the attitude you’re able to have as you walk through those things.

I think about Jesus and the Great Commission, about going out into all the world and teaching, preaching, discipling people, and so on. That means everywhere we can be, the workplace included, because not everybody is going to be in the church house. We all have a ministry wherever He sends us and wherever He deploys us. That’s how I look at it. Thank you for sharing that perspective. Pastor Troy, I know that you have this notion about being in position and out of position with God, that He has a plan, and that He is putting us in position. Tell us a little bit about what happens when we get out of position.

False Assumptions: A Barrier To Reaching Your Potential

The Scripture seems to teach us that God desires for us to succeed. We were created to do something of significance. He wants us to win in our business and our relationships. In order to experience that, as the one who created us and even gave His life so we could succeed, we want to position ourselves where He has defined success can be located.

When I was a coach or when I was playing basketball, if you were going to get a rebound, one of the things you teach is to be in position. If you’re out of position, you’re not going to get the rebound. The other side is going to score on you. It’s all about positioning. A lot in life and our spiritual life, our walk with God is about positioning ourselves so that we can reach our potential and become what God has created us to be. When we get out of position, we miss out.

A lot of times, we think that God is over here, patting us on the head or disciplining us. He does discipline us, the Scripture teaches that. A lot of times, what we assume is, “Oh no, God is mad at me.” All along, the reason He told us to do life a certain way is because He desires to see us succeed. He knows.

Every challenge is not the result of a mistake. Sometimes, they're necessary to propel you into your destiny. Click To Tweet

It’s like if you go outside without an umbrella, you’re going to get wet because it’s raining. God knows where it’s raining, and He doesn’t want us to go into the rain, so He provides umbrellas. When we don’t go with the umbrella, it’s not like all of a sudden God makes it rain. He knew it was raining, that’s why He provided the umbrella. The same thing is true when it comes to our destiny or our success and potential in life.

It makes me think about the Blackabees when they were talking about experiencing God and the whole notion of going where God is working, where He’s calling you to join Him in that vineyard, in that field of labor, or whatever it is. One of the mistakes that people can make is being out of position and, therefore, not being as effective. What are some other ways people sometimes make mistakes in so far as their potential, discovering it, following it, and pursuing it?

One of the things that got my attention early on is that when the people of God left Egypt to go to the Promised Land, the Scripture says that God took them the roundabout way. Sometimes we assume that challenges mean we went the wrong way. In reality, they’re about preparation. False assumptions can cause lots of trouble in life.

I read a book years ago about the Vietnam War and all the false assumptions that were made that cost lives. The same thing is true in our own personal journey. We make false assumptions about what’s happening, maybe because we haven’t spent the time to continue to trust and follow, whether it’s in the Scriptures or the patience.

One of the ways we get out of position is by responding too quickly to challenges and circumstances, thinking we’ve made a mistake. Every challenge is not the result of a mistake. Sometimes the challenge is necessary to propel us into our destiny. It’s through that difficulty or process. It’s easy to assume we’re going the wrong way. It’s good to evaluate, but don’t so quickly turn around and go the other way.

In your case, for example, knowing that you had been prepared to do this coaching role, talk a little bit about how God has used everything in your prior preparation for what you’re doing now.

The Culture Of South Florida And Its Impact On Faith

The desire of a coach is to help whatever they’re leading. The goal of a coach is to help the team succeed, to become the best players, best people, best young men and women they can become. The great thing about that is you get to leverage basketball to grow those people. In my case, it was basketball, but whatever it is. That’s always been in my heart. I love to see people succeed. That hasn’t changed. I’m not just leveraging basketball. I’m leveraging ministry. We have lots of ministries here.

The great thing about ministry is that we’re accomplishing something like feeding the hungry, or people may be parking cars, doing all the different ministries, but it’s not just the task they’re doing. In doing the task, ministry is happening within the person doing it, and growth is happening within that person. I believe that when somebody becomes a part of, for example, Potential Church, it impacts every aspect of their life in a positive way.

Not only their spiritual life, but they become better leaders, better moms and dads, better husbands and wives, better boyfriends and girlfriends because that’s our heart. It’s to coach them in what they’re going through to get them to where they were created to be, that passion, that desire in their heart, to dream again if they’ve given up on it. A coach is always reminding the players not to quit, not to give up. That’s a passion we have here and that I have.

This reminds me of David. When David was a shepherd boy, he was learning how to protect the sheep, learning how to fight the wolves, the bears, the lions, and other enemies of the sheep. God used all of that training for him to shepherd the people of Israel, which was his ultimate calling, even though he was learning it as a shepherd boy. It’s very similar. You’ve taken those coaching skills and all of that ability and applied them to how you’re developing the people in your church now.

On a personal level, God used me while I was playing basketball to learn about my faith. Also, the fact that I was successful as an athlete gave me the confidence to go into a field that I didn’t have confidence in. In other words, had I not been successful as an athlete, it would have been much more challenging for me to go into the role of ministry.

The confidence of success in the past allowed me to have the faith, the confidence, that I could ultimately succeed in what I was feeling God was calling me to do. I’m thankful not only for the lessons I learned but for the success, because when you were talking about David, you think about the fact that he was able to take those animals out. I’m sure that gave him confidence when he looked out at the giant, to take that giant on as well.

That’s a great point that you’re making, learning that you can succeed and be successful, and having a track record of that, makes you less afraid to step into a new scenario. Even though it’s a little different from what you’ve done, you’ve succeeded in the past, stepping up to an enemy, a foe, a challenge, or a danger, whatever it might be. This brings me to ask you about South Florida. Let’s talk about the culture there and how it’s challenging for pastors. Tell us what it’s like, and also a little bit about what the church was like when you first got there, and how you’ve grown it to 20,000 people now.

South Florida is a great place to live, and it’s made up of great people. It’s an unchurched area, 95% to 98% unchurched. West Palm, a few miles north of where I am now, is the most never-churched city in the country. On a spiritual note, because there’s a big Hispanic population, there’s some Catholic heritage that people have, but not per se an active attendance, actively rolled. The great thing is we don’t have a lot of the politics that can sometimes go along with religion, and we have the opportunity to start fresh. All that demands is patience.

When we learn something new, it sometimes takes a while to comprehend all that’s happening and taking place. Our goal from the very beginning as a church is to try to do ministry and to reach the folks who don’t know Christ, who haven’t experienced Him. Everything we do, we do with that in mind, as opposed to trying to grow the church by maybe reaching an unhappy church person or that kind of thing. It’s been focused on reaching those who have never heard the message, or it’s been a long time, maybe they went with grandma. The reality is you have multi-generationally unchurched people here.

Growing up in Arkansas, people didn’t go to church, but they knew about it. There was an ought to mindset that I grew up around. Whereas here, there’s no ought to, which is unique in the sense that there’s not a negative attitude towards church, God, or religion. There’s just no thought about it. Lots of competition, we have the beach, we have Disney, not too far away. We’ve got a lot of stuff, but we’ve been here for 24 years. Our kids have grown up here. I remember when we came here from Arkansas, we had lots of folks say, “You’re going to Miami?” Back in the day, Miami was considered a dangerous place, with lots of different stories about it, but it’s been a great experience for them and us.

It’s interesting because when you’re going to a place where people don’t necessarily have the Christian foundation, they didn’t grow up with that, it is an interesting opportunity to start over, to start from ground zero, and to build a foundation. You’ve had to be particularly creative and innovative in your approaches in order to do that. Tell us a little bit about what it is that you do that is creative and unique in order to reach a variety of people.

It’s unique and creative in a sense. I think of creativity as the discipline to think past the first idea. There’s a tendency to find an answer and then move on with that. To me, creativity is staying in the room past the first idea, the first answer. As a team, we work together to ask the question, is this the best way? Is this the most effective way? I’m a visual person, so I like to teach using props, trying to be creative in the sense of what I can bring to help people be reminded of what we’re teaching or the principle that we’re trying to get across.

My goal is to help people believe something, not behave in a certain way. Behavior is important, but you can get certain behavior in a lot of different ways. Fear can do that, manipulation can do that, but that’s not transformative. Since I believe this is real and does have the power to change your life, I think that God did create us with a sense of destiny, potential, and purpose. Trying to use different props. The way we express ourselves is being who we are.

People have a certain mindset of what a pastor looks like or what a church service looks like, those kinds of things. Trying to break that mold sometimes is creative. It’s not in the sense that nobody could ever think of it, but it’s creative in the sense that creativity often is limited by fear. You think about fashion, and somebody who creates fashion. There’s a gift in that, no doubt. What keeps people from it so often is fear. It’s not that they can’t think of the idea, but it’s like, is it going to be rejected? How are people going to respond? What are they going to say?

It’s overcoming that fear to try new things. They don’t all work. Some of our creative ideas weren’t that great overall. Creativity creates a situation where people don’t know what to expect. Especially when you’ve been somewhere a long time, it can become more like we know what we’re going to get. If we’re not there today, we’ll get it next time. When people don’t know what’s going to happen that weekend, it’s important because they missed something if they’re not there.

What are some examples of something where you might have used a prop or something unusual that shook things up? If someone wasn’t there and they missed it, they might have even been sorry they weren’t there, “That was unique. That was different.”

Creativity is the discipline to think past the first idea. Click To Tweet

We did a series. I can’t remember exactly what we called it, but it was Daredevil. We invited the daredevil. At the time, he was on one of the cable TV channels. He came down and he was going to blow up a car. He got permission from the fire department and all of that. When he got here, he asked me to get in the car with him. He trained me.

I’m not a risk taker. I don’t ride roller coasters unless we’re videoing it for service. Anyway, he showed me how to do it. I got the whole suit and everything, and we got in the car. We got video of it exploding and us walking out of the fire. We were able to leverage that whole series to teach about having the willingness to take risks and take advantage of opportunity, and those kinds of things.

When you talk about relationships and you talk about sexual intimacy, one of the things that I have done is talk about cheesecake and leverage it in the sense that a lot of folks in their sexual lives don’t position themselves where God wants them to be. As a result, they just get the whipped cream, and it tastes good. A lot of times, when we think about sexual intimacy, we think of God trying to keep something from us. To me, the creative mindset is thinking God doesn’t want us to miss out. It’s not that he’s trying to keep something from us, he doesn’t want us to miss out on the best. We’re settling for the whipped cream when God wants us to have the whole cheesecake.

When I teach on that, a lot of times, I’ll have the can of whipped cream, and I’ll talk about how this is good. I love whipped cream, but when you put the whipped cream on the cheesecake, and you get the strawberries and the syrup, that is the whole thing. That’s what God desires for us. I’m always trying to think in that way because I know most people have a perspective of God as someone trying to keep stuff from them as opposed to trying to give them experiences and joy in life.

I love that you’re using these innovative approaches and these unique ideas to tell more of the truth about who God is and what he’s doing, and also to break some stereotypes out there as well. Quite memorable. I’m sure those people who were there for the daredevil experience won’t forget that. That was quite amazing. I can even see it in my own mind’s eye.

I know that you do a lot of things to break out of stereotypes. One of the things that I observed in first getting to know you was that, “Here’s a pastor who wears earrings, who has tattoos, and also wears that style that’s out now with the holes in the jeans and all of that.” Tell us about that, because your doctrine is very mainstream, very mainline. There’s no flaw there. You’re bringing this other perspective that’s quite out of the box and unique. Tell us how it’s working.

Mentoring And Developing Leaders: Strategies For Growth

To me, that’s the freedom that we have in Christ, that we can be consistent in what the scripture teaches. To me, that’s important. I feel like, as a pastor, that’s my authority. If I’m teaching on the platform here at the church, that’s my authority. That’s the truth. That’s what’s going to transform lives. I can do that, but I can be me. Is this something God wants me to do? That was the hardest part for me. Do I have to dress a certain way?

Especially growing up in the Bible Belt, I loved all the pastors I had, but they all had very similar characteristics. That’s not me. I like fashion. I like the tattoos, not because they’re in style or out of style, it’s a natural outflow of who I am. For me, that allows us to reach a group of folks who maybe might not get reached. I’m sure it limits us in some ways. Some people may prejudge what that says about us. I had one lady one time ask me, “You got your tattoos before you trusted Christ, didn’t you?” It’s like, not really.

To me, this whole thing is so important because I think that’s what God uses. He uses who we are, and the more we become who we are, whether it be in ministry, as a father, or in business, the more we discover who we are, who God created us to be, and the more we embrace that and become that, the more effective we’re going to be.

It’s one of the great benefits of believing we have a purpose and a destiny, because as we discover that and embrace that, and aren’t afraid of how people are going to respond to that, that’s where our success and fulfillment will be. The last thing you want to do is build a big business, a big church, or even have lots of money and not be happy. When you try to be somebody else, you might have some outward appearances of success. Is it successful if there’s not a joy, a peace, and a sense of purpose in what you’re doing?

Let me draw maybe a line from the pastoral environment, where you are in a church setting, and also talk about the business leader who is not in a church setting. There are a lot of restrictions in companies about what you can share with people about your faith and so on. They have to be very creative, and they have to be innovative in how they may reach people in that context. What would you say to those who are business executives, and there are those limitations? How can they be a bit more creative about reaching people in their setting?

It’s important to remember, you’re always being watched. If you declared your faith in any way, you’re being watched and judged. However you want to look at that, that’s the reality of the world. Consistency is probably the most important aspect of sharing your faith. That doesn’t mean being perfect. It means being vulnerable, being honest, being real, but being consistent. It’s easy to have a strong perspective on the morality of politics or the morality of something going on in the culture but then not live it out in our own lives.

That’s where people are looking. If I’m going to have a big opinion about a politician or about some event that’s happening in culture, I want to make sure that I’m backing that up with the way that I live. Not in the sense of perfection, but that people can tell that I truly do value those things and I’m living those things out. They’re not just preaching points. The great thing about being in the workplace is that people get to see that.

We have kids and grandkids, so people get to see us at the athletic field, and I live that out in my workouts and all those kinds of things. Most of the time, people’s experience with me is inside a spiritual environment. They already have an expectation that I’m going to be kind and all these kinds of things. One of the great benefits of being in the workplace is that consistency will stand out. Here in South Florida, it’s not known as a great friendly place. Anytime I go to the mall, being kind always gets noticed, and being patient.

If I’m patient and kind, I can guarantee you, whatever store I’m in, the sales associate is going to make some comment about either my patience or my kindness. At church, nobody is ever going to say anything about that. Nobody’s ever said, “You’re patient at the church,” but at the mall or on the ball field. I’ve heard that multiple times. I encourage the folks at the workplace. It’s about being authentic, vulnerable, and consistent.

That speaks volumes. We can say a lot of things. However, if we don’t live them out, then people don’t believe it. They believe what they see us do more than what we say. That’s a good point. Until every day, for hours, eight hours or more per day, at least five days a week, you have an opportunity to be authentic and live out the values that you profess to believe. That’s a great way of thinking about being creative. I know, Pastor Troy, that you are known for mentoring and developing leaders. What are some of your strategies for growing the others around you and preparing them for leadership?

The simplest thing that I’ve done that’s had success over the years is identifying people, first of all, and personally going to them. It is because people have a hard time believing. Going to people, and then inviting them into some context where you can do life. For me, a lot of times, I’ll use a book study, some kind of book, and we’ll go through the book. What’s in the book is great and wonderful, but it’s being able to apply leadership principles to life.

If you meet with a group of people, especially a smaller group of 12 to 15 people or even smaller, the book gives you a reason to meet. The hardest thing to do when it comes to developing leaders is who wants to go necessarily to a leadership event? They’re already motivated to be a leader, which is great if they come to a leadership talk or a leadership event or those kinds of things. I need to give people a reason to get together so I can speak into their lives. A book is a great way to do that.

If it’s ministry, when I came here, the reason I got into the parking lot was that I was serving in the parking lot. One, it needed to be done because it was crazy at the time. Two, it gave me an opportunity to build a team, to bring the cooler with the Cokes, and hang out with them in between the services, and all those things. When I became the pastor, I already had a team of leaders that I had developed out in the parking lot because that gave me a reason.

When it comes to leadership development, how you gather people is important. I don’t think it matters whether it’s at work or school or however. How are you going to identify them? What’s going to be the reason to gather together to be able to then pour into their lives and develop them? Sometimes that can be pain. Leaders are going through difficult challenges. It can be about marriage, whatever. It is because that’s the hardest thing in the world. Everybody’s busy. Iron sharpens iron. If you’re not together, it’s hard to develop people.

This is interesting because it reminds me a lot of what Jesus did. He identified people first, called them out, and then he had reasons for his close-in disciples to be meeting with him and going around with him. I’ll say doing life together is essentially what they were doing. He could pour into their lives because they were there and they were doing some aspects and some work together.

It doesn’t matter what it is you’re doing, as long as you’re doing it together. The way I parented is I would look for opportunities, teaching what I call teaching moments. To me, that’s much more effective than a teaching lesson. A teaching moment is incredibly important. Motivated folks, a teaching lesson is great because they’re sitting down, they’ve got their pencil, they’re on this podcast, they’re listening because they want to learn.

Consistency is the most important aspect of sharing your faith. It is not being perfect. It is being vulnerable, honest, and real while being consistent. Click To Tweet

That’s great. Those resources are necessary and important, but there are a lot of folks who haven’t believed yet in themselves who have great capacity or great potential. You need those opportunities to see a moment, and then talk about, why did this happen? Why do you feel that way? How do we move forward? You’re developing a leader without them even realizing it.

It’s all part of your time together. I know it’s important to you to leave a legacy. What else would you share that you do as far as the succession planning process at your church? You talked a little bit about how you identify the leaders, you spend time with them, and you pour into them. What about preparing the next generation, the succession planning? What else is in the mix that you practice on a regular basis?

The Importance Of Awareness In Decision-Making

I talked about this in the service. Our influence is much greater, but we’re responsible for three generations. Our generation, the generation of our kids, you might say, and then the grandkids. In the family context, it would be like that. In any other, it would be those three generations. To me, it begins by having a vision that’s bigger than me. A lot of times, we get a vision, and our vision has great clarity in what I hope to accomplish or what I want my company or my ministry to accomplish. God wants us to have dreams and visions that are bigger than can be accomplished in one life. God thinks much bigger than that.

That allows us to lead in such a way that we’re not just thinking about one generation. It is because that can cause us to get in a rush, it can cause us to make bad decisions. Our ego gets in the way, all of that. When we start to think about three generations, we can start making decisions and building things in such a way that it truly is a legacy. That intentionality comes into play in the decisions that we’re making, and that’s most important.

For one thing, there’s a vision and there’s a vision beyond one generation. You’re thinking three generations out. Give us maybe one tactic or specific thing that you do that reaches across, let’s say, even down to the grandchildren’s generation.

Most of our bad decisions in life are the result of being unaware of the right decision or not self-aware enough to make the right decision. Awareness is incredibly important. It’s about asking ourselves the question, if we’re going to build something physical, whether it’s an office or church or whatever it is, if you’re asking yourself the question, 30 years from now or 50 years from now, what decision am I making, and what am I leaving for 50 years from now?

It’s that process of thinking bigger than just the auditorium. In the pastoral world, you’re building an auditorium, or you’re building a children’s building, or whatever, but what you use, where you put it, how big you build it, trying to think through the process of 50 years from now. Not necessarily that it’s going to be standing, but what structure do you put in place? In my heart, they may have to tear everything down in 50 years, who knows? We may have robots. I don’t know what the world is going to look like.

I don’t want my legacy to be a building that can’t be torn down or a certain style of ministry that can’t be completely changed. I have to be careful not to put structures in place or lift structures to a level that then people are trying to fulfill something that is either no longer successful or not the heart of the leader that’s leading at that time. Structures are important so that people have freedom multiple generations from now.

I know, in church, it’s easy for that young leader to rise up and not be able to do anything because of the way things have been done for the last 30 years. I don’t think anybody meant for that to happen. Some of those folks are gone. They’re in that cemetery. In some churches, right outside the doors, as far as where they were buried. They’d be heartbroken to think that some of the things that are being hung on to are keeping people from being successful. They never thought through what they were putting into position and how easily it could be changed and moved.

I’m not talking about truth. You want truth to be steadfast. You want that legacy to be solid. Whether this building stands or is torn down, or whether the style of service or certain titles that we use for departments, all that kind of stuff, because you see it in ministry, and you also see it in business. Especially in the family, if it’s handed down from one family person to the next, where they can be limited by prior generations. If you’re not careful, that’s what will happen because people want to respect that. If you’re healthy and if you’ve been successful, you probably are a healthy organization, people want to honor and they want to respect what went before them. There’s a way in which to do that and still have freedom as well.

It’s the reason why the Bible is timeless, because it applies no matter what generation we’re in, no matter what the customs may be, and so on and so forth. If we stuck to how they did things back in the day, it wouldn’t be applicable in that sense. That’s what you’re talking about. It’s focusing on that which lasts and that which is most important. That’s at the core and the heart of what it is that you’re doing. That’s a very relevant point.

It’s hard. In ministry, it’s hard because I can remember for us, it’s like with worship. You have to think through these things. It’s something as simple as whether they’re going to wear hats or not on the platform. There’s a whole tradition, much like the tattoos, and you have to think through. It’s easy to say, “They’re not honoring,” and you give a whole set of motives to certain people.

You have to wrestle through and think through those kinds of things that the scriptures don’t necessarily speak to. It doesn’t speak to how you’re supposed to dress on a platform. It shows the kind of spirit and attitude you’re supposed to have. A hat in a building in 1950 meant something different than it does in 2024. Those small things will create a spirit and an attitude in any organization that are important.

Very good points that you’re bringing up. So far, you’ve been sharing an awful lot with us. I know that many of these concepts come out of your book that’s called Potential. Tell us a little bit more about the book, why you wrote it, and what people will get out of it if they read it.

The book is about the journey. Our example is the people of God. They go from being enslaved to the most powerful nation at the time, Egypt, all the way to the promised land. It’s an incredible blueprint because we all have a promised land. That is our destiny. The promised land is not heaven in the story or narrative of scripture. It is God’s promise. In all of our lives, the Bible says we are a masterpiece.

There’s a destiny, there’s a purpose for our life. That journey follows so much of what they went through. There’s so much that we can learn as we take that journey. We talk about how to be self-aware, how we’ve got to start by knowing who we are. We talk about the different challenges along the way that they faced and what we can learn from them. We talk about succession, it’s a passion of mine. We put it down with words.

Who would you say the book is for?

Everybody who writes a book wants it to be for everybody. I do think it’s for folks who hunger for more than what they’re presently experiencing. It’s for people who maybe have given up the dream that they know they once had and have become discouraged. It shows an example, a path. It gives some answers. My heart is to encourage. I think it’s encouraging to folks along the way.

Thank you. I’m so glad you wrote a book for that audience and for that population, something that can restart some of the dreams where the flame might have gone down a little bit. That’s fantastic. How can people reach you, Pastor Troy, and how can they get the book?

My name is Troy Gramling. My handles are my name. They can go to Amazon, they can go to Barnes & Noble, Walmart, any of the places they get books. They can go and get it online or go in person at Barnes & Noble, I’m sure they’d have it. It comes out on June 11.

That’s phenomenal. What additional words of wisdom do you want to leave for my community of executive business leaders? You’ve left a lot of wisdom already. What else would you like to say?

I don’t know if it’d be wisdom, but my encouragement would be what we’ve talked about every weekend that goes through my heart. The whole reason I wrote that book is to not give up. There’s a scripture that says, “Don’t grow weary in well-doing, because in due season, you will reap a harvest.” There’s a scripture in Psalms that talks about putting your wheat, which was their wealth, on the boat and sending it out because it’ll return back to you. The easiest thing in the world, the thing that keeps so many folks from their destiny, their peace, their purpose, a sense of fulfillment, is they get discouraged and they give up. The worst thing in the world to have to live with is regret, a sense of what might’ve been.

God wants us to have a dreams and visions that are bigger than what can be accomplished in one life. Click To Tweet

I don’t know whether you’re beginning the journey, whether the business is doing well, or whether COVID has made it incredibly difficult in these last 4 or 5 years, however long it’s been for you. Don’t give up. Don’t give up. You have to take one more step, and you don’t give up now. Don’t worry about tomorrow. Don’t worry about next week or next month. I don’t know at what time you’re tuning in to this, but whatever time it is, you’ve made it this far. You’ve already done that because success is a lot closer than people realize.

I love that. Success is a lot closer than people realize. Keep moving. You have a purpose. You have a destiny. You have God-potential, in essence, that’s what you’re saying. Pastor Troy, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing that encouragement with everyone.

It’s been a real honor, Dr. Starks. Thank you so much for the invitation. I look forward to the future.

Closing Scriptures And The Importance Of Community

Amen to that.

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We will close with a set of scriptures that come from Ephesians 4. We will start in verse 11. It says, “”He himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but speaking the truth in love may grow up in all things into Him who is the head, Christ, from whom the whole body joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.”

We can see here that God has given gifts to his people. He’s given gifts to us collectively in the church. We don’t all do the same role or office, yet collectively, we are there for the edifying of each other and growing up together so that we each can reach our God-given purpose and potential. I hope that you see that. I hope that you know that you are an important part of God’s body and that you make a difference. Have a blessed day as you live out your purpose and your potential in life.

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It’s Dr. Karen here, and I’m here to celebrate the work of the Bible League, which is a global ministry that provides Bibles, ministry study materials, and through activities like Project Philip, also teaches and trains local people in how to share the Word of God. The president and CEO of the Bible League, Jos Snoep, is with me to share a little bit more about what the Bible League is doing.

The beauty of the local church is that it is the body of Christ, and it is the Holy Spirit that is calling the local church to be engaged in a great commission. As Bible League, we come alongside those local pastors. In 2024, I met a pastor, whose name is Rolando, in the Amazon, and he has this great vision to reach 200 communities with the Word of God, and we’re able to come alongside them and help them with Bibles and resources.

Thank you so much, Jos. We are all partners together. You, the Bible League, are the hands and feet to the local people on the ground, and there are partners and donors out there who can be hands and feet to you as you also share with others. Those of you who are tuning in, if you want to be part of this ministry, and I invite you to be a part of it, I’m a part of it, go to BibleLeague.org, see more about the ministry, and see how you can participate and donate.

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We live in a world with so many divides between groups of people, and today I am with Dr. Clarence Shuler, the President and CEO of Building Lasting Relationships. Dr. Shuler knows that cross-cultural friendships are part of the necessary healing journey. Dr. Shuler, tell us more about the power of cross-cultural friendships.

Dr. Karen, I’d love to do that, and maybe the most important relationship, or one of the most important relationships, we can build are cross-cultural friendships. The reason is because we have so much racial tension, and we found that if people from different cultures become friends, it lowers the racial tension in America.

Dr. Gary Chapman, the author of The 5 Love Languages, a New York Times bestselling author, and I have written this book, this resource, called Life-Changing Cross-Cultural Friendships: How You Can Help Heal Racial Divides One Relationship at a Time, and we believe if people would get that book and read it with a friend and talk about it, or make a cross-cultural friend and read through the book together, it can change lives forever, change the racial tension in America, and make it a better one. That’s our goal with that resource.

Thank you so much, Dr. Shuler, for sharing that. For those of you out there, if you would like to donate and contribute to creating cross-cultural friendships in our world, go to ClarenceShuler.com, and make sure you pick up a copy of the book for yourself and start a new cross-cultural friendship.

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It’s Dr. Karen here, and I want to tell you a little bit about Spirit Wings Kids Foundation, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. It’s an organization that provides profound services for orphans, widows, and families across the globe in many ways, especially in the country of Uganda. I’m speaking with Donna Johnson, who is the founder of Spirit Wings Kids and also a board member. Donna, tell us about some examples of the profound work that you’re doing in Uganda.

Thank you, Dr. Karen. We were there a few weeks ago, and it’s incredible. It’s more than an orphanage. We have a soccer academy that keeps the boys off the street. We have a widow’s program that matches them with children, and it’s a thriving network of entrepreneurs. It’s been such a meaningful blessing to see the work that we’re doing there.

Donna, what I love about what you said now is you’re talking about their whole lives. You’re creating families between the widows and the children, and you’re also making sure they have recreation and something to do with the soccer academy. You’re looking at the job situation and the entrepreneurial aspect. As a businesswoman yourselfwho’s very successful, you’re right in line with being able to make that difference.

Thank you so much for the difference that you’re making, and I’m inviting everyone to go to SwKids.Foundation and donate now. One hundred percent of everything you donate goes to those people who are in need and who are receiving those services. Thank you so much for donating, and Donna, thank you for this ministry.

Important Links

About Pastor Troy Gramling

Pastor Troy Gramling, a dedicated and inspirational spiritual leader, has led Potential Church for over two decades, overseeing its remarkable growth into a vibrant congregation of over 20,000 members, with a far-reaching presence spanning the United States and Latin America. His journey as a pastor is characterized by an unwavering commitment to his vision, fueled by a passion and a mission to partner with people to reach their God potential to impact the world for good.

Beyond his pastoral role, Pastor Troy Gramling is a multifaceted individual with a rich background. Before answering his divine calling, Pastor Troy honed his skills as a college basketball player and later as a coach, where he undoubtedly sharpened the values of teamwork, discipline, and dedication, which he now imparts to his congregation. His leadership insight is evident in his exceptional ability to develop and nurture leaders within the church community, ensuring that his ministry leaves a lasting legacy.

Pastor Troy is known for his innovative and unconventional teaching methods, which captivate and inspire his congregation. His creative approach to spreading the message of Jesus resonates with people from all walks of life, making the profound teachings of the gospel accessible and relevant in today’s world.

Pastor Troy, with his devoted wife, Stephanie, and their loving family, has made South Florida their home, where the family is actively involved in the ministry of Potential Church. His life’s work is a testament to the profound impact that faith can have on individuals and communities, and he continues to be a guiding light for those seeking to embrace their God-given potential and make a positive difference in the world.

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